shatta

content/article/shattainterview.md

@@ -0,0 +1,679 @@
+---
+title: "A Conversation with Khalid Shatta"
+authors: ["boozer.md", "shatta.md"]
+abstract: Anna Boozer interviewed visual artist Khalid Shatta about his artwork and its relationship to homelife over Zoom on August 22nd 2024. The following interview offers a transcript of that conversation, while smoothing over side comments and transitions.
+keywords: ["Nubia", "displacement", "House", "Gender", "Architecture"]
+---
+
+
+
+**Boozer:** Can you tell us about your background and how it inspires
+you?
+
+**Shatta:** My name is Khalid Mohamed Hammad Elkhatteem. My nickname is
+Khalid Shatta. Two years ago, my older brother told me that our great
+grandfather was named Shatta also. I am Sudanese. I come from the Nuba
+Mountains in Kordofan, which is in the southern part of Sudan now. I was
+born in the Nuba Mountains but my family moved to Khartoum because of
+the war during that time and I grew up in Khartoum.
+
+I think my family can say also that they are a collapse of the history
+of the war in Sudan. I grew up in Sudan. I can feel the way I grew up in
+Khartoum. I now try to understand how my family, they were trying to
+settle down to the new place in their home. We weren't used to it. Sudan
+is a very diverse country -- its languages, its culture.
+
+I grew up in Shag-al-Nil in Khartoum. In my area most of the people
+migrated from South Sudan, Nuba Mountains, or Darfur and most of those
+people are the people who moved because of the war or the dictator
+regime or the basic needs. So, I grew up with a lot of challenges of the
+basic needs of the family and also the basic needs of me to continue my
+school journey. It was always ups and downs.
+
+I started art -- I don't really know when did I start. Ever since I knew
+myself, I was drawing or painting. Art for me is not only a talent or
+hobby but also art is a kind of sacred space for me to escape and
+express myself. It's a silent language that I do understand myself.
+
+I really like to travel and because of the situation of my family and of
+Sudan. My father, he passed away a long time ago and it was very hard
+during that time. We suffered a lot and I turned out to live in the
+streets for many years. What inspires me is people and places and
+migration itself is an inspiration. Because now in a way I feel at home
+wherever I go. I start having that concept of "I'm from here. I'm a
+human being. I'm a special creature in this universe. Why I should
+locate myself and say 'I belong to this place'?"
+
+I've been in Norway now for thirteen years in two places. And even in my
+country, I never stayed with my family for five years. So, the concept
+of family brings many questions for me. Once you have the right to stay
+in one place and the freedom to move that is home. Where you stay, find
+solace here, and how you can struggle to find a place to stay. But my
+soul is here in Norway now. But I am also very happy to have that
+concept that I also belong to another people, another country.
+
+**Boozer:** Multiple belongings.
+
+**Shatta:** Yes. And that shows also how it's a human journey. Some
+people are arriving and some people are falling so it leaves me to
+understand that all we have is civilization and history because we're
+all connected. And in a way to also be indigenous and native -- everyone
+is native if you believe we came from one human family. We are the
+result of all this evolution. It doesn't matter where we are located.
+But also, I think I like history and culture, art, everything. But in a
+way I'm also observing.
+
+**Boozer:** It sounds like you carefully observe all of the people and
+places around you for inspiration. Is that right?
+
+**Shatta:** Yes. Also, yes sometimes is sad because the human history is
+built with blood and it is a very painful journey to reach wherever we
+are. But, also its full of change and challenge because sometimes you
+have a question, such as "what is an American"?
+
+**Boozer:** There's no simple answer to that.
+
+**Shatta:** Yeah! And also, in Sudan even in our ancient history there
+is a lot of sacrifice for the gods, there is also violence. It's painful
+but in a way, it is also interesting how we change and accept.
+
+**Boozer**: All of the growing pains that we go through.
+
+**Shatta:** Yeah. And the beauty too. In Sudan I went to the Nuba
+Mountains, I was very scared when I was there because there was war. I
+was scared to just walk into the forest. It's just war. But when I came
+to Norway, I became more connected to the nature. Because when you are
+scared you can't enjoy the beauty around you.
+
+**Boozer:** You can't relax and observe.
+
+**Shatta:** I think places play a huge role in my artistic inspiration,
+so I like to travel.
+
+**Boozer:** It sounds like places, people, and deep histories inspire
+much of your work.
+
+**Shatta:** Yes, and also me and my journey of life.
+
+**Boozer:** Do you have any rituals or routines that help you with your
+creative process?
+
+**Shatta:** Actually, no, I have no routine. I just love to paint. I
+don't know how to express that. I don't have rituals. Sometimes my
+paintings inspire me. Sometimes just lying on my bed and looking at this
+painting seeing the canvas, the color, knowing I painted it, thinking
+"wow, this is nice!" And I feel good about that. Just to put my thoughts
+on canvas and create those kinds of shadows. Sometimes I don't
+understand it, but I like to not understand it. I like it that it
+creates a curiosity. Sometimes I can't explain my art, but, also, I feel
+it in my bones, I feel it in my soul. I can feel the power in it. I left
+my country because of my art. The government forced me to leave. I came
+to Europe because of my art. I won an international competition. I am
+here because of my art. I believe in that. Art can bring me to travel
+and also it can save me. I do believe in this power of art. I can see
+that power. Sometimes it is spiritual. It's something I don't understand
+also. But it is something that is very powerful. It is the essence of
+many things.
+
+**Boozer:** You spoke earlier about how art was your silent language and
+that it is a necessary form of communication for you. Although I am not
+an artist, it made sense to me how important it is to get something out
+of yourself. That art can feel true even if you don't understand it.
+
+**Shatta:** Yeah. It is beautiful.
+
+**Boozer:** How do you stay motivated to create?
+
+**Shatta:** You know understanding also motivates me. Just to try to
+understand is motivating. Because understanding goes both ways. At the
+end of the day, it is understanding. If it is pain, you understand why
+it is pain. If it is happiness, you understand why it is happiness. So,
+for me, understanding itself motivates me.
+
+**Boozer:** So, understanding your feelings motivates you.
+
+**Shatta:** Yes, understanding what I'm passing through. For example,
+we're passing through hard times. For me as a Sudanese even though I
+live in Norway I can see my people are just dying. There are so many
+people dying. But I need to understand the process of why we're having
+war. Also, it makes me more calm to accept the understanding rather than
+supporting the war. It's a really nice way of motivation.
+
+**Boozer:** You're accomplished at painting, drawing, and photography.
+What draws you to one medium over another? What differences do you find
+in your art when you change medium?
+
+**Shatta:** In my family I don't have a picture of me as a child. I had
+one picture when I think I was about five years or something, but I lost
+it.
+
+**Boozer:** Oh no!
+
+**Shatta:** Yeah! I didn't find it and my family didn't find it, the
+picture. But after that also I travelled a lot in Sudan. I moved to stay
+in different places. The first time I held a camera was with an
+organization for displaced children. They gave us a camera just to take
+a picture. I was happy! I felt I had a new eye to see things. And after
+that I just kept going, taking pictures. I even took photographic design
+at art school in Sudan. I like to take pictures but I find a different
+enjoyment in painting and drawing because I feel like it's all me. It's
+connected with my soul and my thoughts. And I feel like this is the
+knowledge I want to dive into more than taking pictures. But I can take
+pictures too. And from that time until now, I'm just painting, and I can
+see which level I am now. So now I'm thinking to take pictures because I
+feel like, wow. Because starting in 2009 I was a good photographer in
+Sudan and I made a lot of money from that, but it makes me very busy
+digitally. Now I'm more connected with my soul and my heart and my
+hands. I love that. And also, it gives me more perspective to create to
+make photographs. But also, because there are a billion great
+photographs. Photographs are very important, especially in the twentieth
+century, all of the history that changed the world through the
+photographs. Even the archive I'm working with in Berlin, because this
+is the one who did propaganda for Hitler, we see it's all about
+photographs. And even Mussolini it's about photographs. The
+assassination of Kennedy, it\'s about photographs.
+
+**Boozer:** The photographs are moving in a very specific way.
+
+**Shatta:** Yes. You know Martin Luther King, Malcolm X, it's the
+pictures. And it's important in that sense. But to paint or to draw is
+more meaningful. It connects me more. I feel it's me, me. Because we are
+humans, we want that. We like to take the credit. Because this
+photograph is the work of the camera. This painting is me.
+
+**Boozer:** You feel more connected to the paintings.
+
+**Shatta:** Yes. Maybe I don't understand why. Maybe I don't have the
+right approach. I think this picture is the work of the camera. This
+painting is the work of me. But maybe I don't understand. Maybe don't
+have the right answer for now.
+
+**Boozer:** Or your feelings may change over time.
+
+**Shatta:** Yes.
+
+**Boozer:** We talked before this interview about a photograph that you
+took and I'd like to talk about it more now. Or we could talk about
+another piece that reminds you of homelife or disconnection that has a
+story behind it.
+
+
+![“The Unknown Hope (1)”, Shatta’s hometown in El-Korgal, Nuba Mountains, Sudan.  (Khalid Shatta, 2011).](../static/images/shatta/fig1.jpg "“The Unknown Hope (1)”, Shatta’s hometown in El-Korgal, Nuba Mountains, Sudan.  (Khalid Shatta, 2011).")
+
+**~~Figure 1. “The Unknown Hope (1)”, Shatta’s hometown in El-Korgal, Nuba Mountains, Sudan.  (Khalid Shatta, 2011).~~**
+
+
+**Boozer:** This one in the Nuba mountains with the white jalabiya
+(figure 1). This is where my mom and dad were born. And I don't know how
+to put it in English. You can feel the connection of home. The meaning
+is always very deep. The forest is home. The trees are a soul. And they
+are building what we call *rakooba* in Arabic.
+
+**Boozer:** A thatch hut?
+
+**Shatta:** Yes. And I really love it. The way of the motion and the
+connection. And even in my painting series, *The Migration of the Soul*,
+humans migrate from nature. When we migrated from nature, we became very
+harsh with each other. Because we don't have the language of the
+surroundings. We don't have the understanding. And I think that many
+village people are more connected with nature and they know how to
+define themselves with basic things. But in a way, they have a real
+connection with their land with nature. And I felt that in this picture.
+
+**Boozer:** Yes, you can see it in the way his arms cross.
+
+**Shatta:** Yes.
+
+**Boozer:** The connection is happening between him and the land.
+
+**Shatta:** Yes, the connection. You feel like you really belong to this
+earth.
+
+**Boozer:** Yes, it's beautiful. I see that connection. This one (figure
+2). This is the one we were talking about before, right?
+
+
+![“The Unknown Hope (2)”, Damazin Market, Blue Nile, Sudan (Khalid Shatta, 2011).](../static/images/shatta/fig2.jpg "“The Unknown Hope (2)”, Damazin Market, Blue Nile, Sudan (Khalid Shatta, 2011).")
+
+**~~Figure 2. “The Unknown Hope (2)”, Damazin Market, Blue Nile, Sudan (Khalid Shatta, 2011).~~**
+
+
+**Shatta:** Yes, this is the one. And on the boy's t-shirt it says "the
+eagle human eye". You see it?
+
+**Boozer:** Yes.
+
+**Shatta:** And if you think about it, I took this photograph in 2011.
+Now some of them may have three or five kids. You know how it is in my
+culture. And think about how in this kind of situation they are the ones
+who are killing. They are the ones who are stealing. They are the ones
+who are in the war. They are everything. And even me. If I am there, I
+am going to do the same thing. Because this is where I was born, this is
+how I was raised. This is what is normal. Because in Norway the police
+have no guns when patrolling. Just imagine if you grow up in a place
+where you have gangs everywhere.
+
+And also, it explains the trap of the history of Sudan. You know,
+because we are in war for more than sixty or seventy years, and even
+before that we have the British and the Egyptians, and the Turkish. In
+Sudan we never had a rest just to settle. The culture of war is very
+deep. The culture of war is also mixed with slavery and I think this is
+still what is ruling Sudan. It doesn't matter what place in Sudan you
+are located. Because especially this war reflects what Sudan is. It is
+very fragile. There is no basis of identity. It is a mix of races. It is
+a mix of people struggling. It is a mix of many things. But all these
+things are missing one thing. We don't have institutions to hold what we
+need, what we want to be as Sudanese. And I think this is one of the
+things. And even the system of the army that we have is a system from
+when the British colonized. And even the problem of South Sudan. They
+divided it because of the lack of opportunity for education because of
+the many lacks. And now South Sudan is divided too. And at that time,
+they said it was Christianity that was the issue, but now what about
+Khartoum?
+
+In a way you feel there is a country, there is a land full of minerals,
+full of resources, but there is no-one who belongs to it really. You can
+question yourself why are we like that. Even in Europe you can find a
+church that is four hundred years old or six hundred or more than that.
+They have this knowledge, these buildings. You don't feel that different
+from six hundred years ago. And some of those buildings are better than
+now. And that shows how we are very far even in the history because
+Meroitic, Kemetic, or Kushitic civilization you can be proud of that.
+But maybe we don't even belong to those people. It shows the dilemma of
+education, academic, of things. Because we need to accept that first. We
+need to see where history leaves us. We need to see that more. Maybe
+this picture for me holds those ideas. Because people think the problem
+is just from the former regime. No. It is deeper. It is more than that.
+
+**Boozer:** There are deep roots to it and the tree keeps growing,
+supported by those roots.
+
+
+![“The Unknown Hope (3)”, International Displaced Persons (IDPs) from Khartoum (Khalid Shatta, 2011).](../static/images/shatta/fig3.jpg "“The Unknown Hope (3)”, International Displaced Persons (IDPs) from Khartoum (Khalid Shatta, 2011).")
+
+**~~Figure 3. “The Unknown Hope (3)”, International Displaced Persons (IDPs) from Khartoum (Khalid Shatta, 2011).~~**
+
+
+**Shatta:** Yes. Because even the people who are in charge now in Sudan.
+They are Sudanese from our families. They came from the same
+communities. So, why do we ignore that? Ah, so this picture (figure 3),
+I took it in Omdurman. At that time, we were moving the South Sudanese
+and people from the Nuba Mountains. This is before the dividing of South
+Sudan. So, just imagine now what is happening in Sudan. People migrate.
+So, this is my city.
+
+**Boozer:** I love this one (figure 4).
+
+
+![“The Unknown Hope (4)” in the El-Haj Yousif Neighborhood, Sudan (Khalid Shatta, 2011).](../static/images/shatta/fig4.jpg "“The Unknown Hope (4)” in the El-Haj Yousif Neighborhood, Sudan (Khalid Shatta, 2011).")
+
+**~~Figure 4. “The Unknown Hope (4)” in the El-Haj Yousif Neighborhood, Sudan (Khalid Shatta, 2011).~~**
+
+
+**Shatta:** Yeah, this is really nice, you know? This guy, he's adopted.
+Maybe he's a soldier now. Our neighbor was the first woman where I lived
+to adopt. It was for me -- wow -- you know? Because we were living in a
+poor city, in a ghetto, so for me -- wow -- that was really nice. It was
+inspiring to me. And now maybe he's in high school or something.
+
+**Boozer:** It's been thirteen years now. That's a long time in a
+child's life.
+
+**Shatta:** Yeah. I just loved his expression.
+
+**Boozer:** Yes, his face is so sweet.
+
+**Shatta:** Yes. This is the Fulani, the Fulani people (figure 5).
+
+
+![“The Unknown Hope (5)”, Blue Nile, Sudan (Khalid Shatta, 2011).](../static/images/shatta/fig5.jpg "“The Unknown Hope (5)”, Blue Nile, Sudan (Khalid Shatta, 2011).")
+
+**~~Figure 5. “The Unknown Hope (5)”, Blue Nile, Sudan (Khalid Shatta, 2011).~~**
+
+
+**Boozer:** Tell us about the Fulani.
+
+**Shatta:** The Fulani, or Housa, are people who are located in many
+countries in Africa. The huge Fulani community is in Nigeria. But you
+find them in Sudan, in Senegal, in Chad, in Mali. Not like the Dogons.
+But the Fulani are linked even with the Tuwari, Tugu, and have other
+kinds of links. They really love cows like the Nuer in South Sudan. In
+Sudan we know them as *Omboro*. They are very spiritual. They are Muslim
+but also other things. In the Nuba Mountains we call in *kujur*, like
+voodoo, but those people also have these kinds of rituals with their
+cows.
+
+**Boozer:** So, they have other traditions and spiritualism entangled
+with Islam.
+
+**Shatta:** Yes, it is mixed because they are Muslim. Yes, all over
+Africa and even in Sudan where most of us are Muslim we have our roots
+in other traditions. This one is in el Kargal my hometown (figure 6).
+This is also Fulani.
+
+
+![“The Unknown Hope (6)”, Shatta’s hometown, El-Korgal, Nuba Mountains, Sudan (Khalid Shatta, 2011).](../static/images/shatta/fig6.jpg "“The Unknown Hope (6)”, Shatta’s hometown, El-Korgal, Nuba Mountains, Sudan (Khalid Shatta, 2011).")
+
+**~~Figure 6. “The Unknown Hope (6)”, Shatta’s hometown, El-Korgal, Nuba Mountains, Sudan (Khalid Shatta, 2011).~~**
+
+
+**Boozer:** Awe, so cute!
+
+**KS:** Yes.
+
+**Boozer:** This is a beautiful one (figure 7).
+
+
+![“The Unknown Hope (7)”, El-Haj Yousif Neighborhood, Sudan (Khalid Shatta, 2011).](../static/images/shatta/fig7.jpg "“The Unknown Hope (7)”, El-Haj Yousif Neighborhood, Sudan (Khalid Shatta, 2011).")
+
+**~~Figure 7. “The Unknown Hope (7)”, El-Haj Yousif Neighborhood, Sudan (Khalid Shatta, 2011).~~**
+
+
+**Shatta:** This is my niece.
+
+**Boozer:** She's so beautiful. Her face and the light you capture on it
+is just amazing.
+
+**Shatta:** It's really beautiful. This picture, I took it in a kitchen,
+but I took it I think with candles for light and a red lamp.
+
+**Boozer:** The lighting on it is so beautiful. Her face is so striking.
+
+**Shatta:** Now they are in a safer place. Kassala. They got out of
+Khartoum two months ago.
+
+**Boozer:** I'm glad to hear that...but...everyone is moving. It's so
+hard.
+
+**Shatta:** Yes, just imagine how tough it was for them.
+
+**Boozer:** Just to get out of the heart of the war.
+
+
+![“The Unknown Hope (8)”, the Roseires Dam, Blue Nile at Ad Damazin, Sudan (Khalid Shatta, 2011).](../static/images/shatta/fig8.jpg "“The Unknown Hope (8)”, the Roseires Dam, Blue Nile at Ad Damazin, Sudan (Khalid Shatta, 2011).")
+
+**~~Figure 8. “The Unknown Hope (8)”, the Roseires Dam, Blue Nile at Ad Damazin, Sudan (Khalid Shatta, 2011).~~**
+
+
+**Shatta:** Yes. There's one picture, I need to discuss with you, this
+one (figure 8). Imagine these people. They live beside the dam on the
+Blue Nile. Those people live just three meters from the dam and they
+don't have access.
+
+**Boozer:** They don't have access to the water?
+
+**Shatta:** Yes, they don't have access to the water.
+
+**Boozer:** That's incredible. They're so close.
+
+**Shatta:** Yes, I love this picture. This one is part of a series. When
+did I take this one? This was part of *Migration of the Soul* or *Gods
+in Action*. The red drawings. Should we also look at them?
+
+**Boozer:** Yes, let's do that! I have them here. I really like this one
+(figure 9).
+
+
+![“Migration of the Soul” (Khalid Shatta, 2019).](../static/images/shatta/fig9.jpg "“Migration of the Soul” (Khalid Shatta, 2019).")
+
+**~~Figure 9. “Migration of the Soul” (Khalid Shatta, 2019).~~**
+
+
+**Shatta:** Yes, this one is nice.
+
+**Boozer:** Would you like to tell us a bit about it?
+
+**Shatta:** This one is part of *Migration of the Soul*. The point is
+not the physical migration but the mental migration. And also, the way
+how we feel disconnected from our own existence. For me it is also more
+like how we are engaging in time together. But also, time changes and
+many things can disappear with time, through time. For example, for us
+as humans -- I'm just thinking, I don't know if I'm right or not -- but
+we are the last creatures who live on this earth. When we arrived here,
+we found everything for us, whether through evolution or whatever. We
+find the trees, we find the world, we find everything. And from there we
+build the human civilization. And we had the first migration and it's a
+lot of knowledge that came from this small family of human beings. And
+then came the first ancient peoples the first ancient civilizations. And
+now we are here in, say 2000. For me, to be in 2000, wow, just imagine
+that we are the product of many little, little things.
+
+**Boozer:** Many small past actions and events?
+
+**Shatta:** Yes. And when we look at this perspective, just wow. It's
+not about how long am I going to live, but how did I become a product of
+all of human evolution.
+
+**Boozer:** Coming to this body, to this place, during this period.
+
+**Shatta:** Yes, with these clothes, with this knowledge. You know? So,
+if you can see, there are Wifi signs. So, for us, as modern peoples,
+sometimes when we go to temples, or to mosques, or to church, we get
+shocked by what those people in ancient times created. The beauty. But
+for us even we have our own civilization. You are in New York City; I am
+in Oslo. We speak through our laptops.
+
+**Boozer:** That is its own wonder.
+
+**Shatta:** Yes. You see it is also evolution and our time. And if we
+brought someone from ancient times here, he would be -- wow -- he's
+going to worship us!
+
+**Boozer:** Yes, the technology we command is incredible.
+
+**Shatta:** Yes. You see, he's going to worship us. It's normal! And
+that's why I feel sometimes, it's like humans we have really smart and
+beautiful minds to create things. But when we link our soul with belief,
+we lost our power somehow. Also, there are the trees in the picture,
+human trees. It's like a forest. So, for me, it's about we and them.
+It's about our history and about our present.
+
+**Boozer:** The deep history running into the present.
+
+**Shatta:** Yes, and sometimes we forget that. That's what inspires me
+too. The forgetting.
+
+**Boozer:** I love this one (figure 10).
+
+
+![“Gods in Action (1)” (Khalid Shatta, 2021).](../static/images/shatta/fig10.jpg "“Gods in Action (1)” (Khalid Shatta, 2021).")
+
+**~~Figure 10. “Gods in Action (1)” (Khalid Shatta, 2021).~~**
+
+
+**Shatta:** It is from a series called *Gods in Action*. So, *Gods in
+Action* was inspired by a specific ocean. Solomon Islands and those
+people. The way they portray their gods is a very scary way. And even
+when they welcome someone, it is scary. For me, I find it very
+interesting how people live by the ocean. The way they are creating
+their gods. For me, if you live near the ocean you need to have a god
+that can scare the huge waves of the water. I don't know. I'm just
+trying to think through it. So, I call it *God's in Action* because
+let's imagine how God moves things. Many of us have the image of God,
+but where is the action?
+
+**Boozer:** He looks like a very active God here.
+
+
+![“Gods in Action (2)” (Khalid Shatta, 2021).](../static/images/shatta/fig11.jpg "“Gods in Action (2)” (Khalid Shatta, 2021).")
+
+**~~Figure 11. “Gods in Action (2)” (Khalid Shatta, 2021).~~**
+
+
+**Shatta:** Yes, he's moving! This one is the Nile (figure 11). In
+Africa in general we like to organize by family and by sticking
+together. Sometimes I feel, in Sudan in general, we have connections
+with nature in a spiritual way. Because we are always symbolizing
+things. People portray themselves like the snake, the lion, whatever.
+Maybe the point is to study the movement of these animals and to portray
+themselves as like these creatures. And also, the fish. The fish is my
+favorite sign. I enjoy using it in my art. And in Sudan, in the Nuba
+Mountains, they draw alligators, elephants, and fish in the caves.
+Because, as we said before, there is a lot of knowledge that we
+inherited through our ancestors. It came through the blood. It needs our
+body to relax to receive that knowledge again.
+
+So, I feel like maybe if the wars end in Sudan it's possible to bring
+back again a lot of things, a lot of knowledge that we didn't understand
+as of now. This knowledge needs caring from the government to move
+forward. But, for me, I'm just saving my questions so sometimes my art
+is just a question for the future of how to use it in Sudan. Because
+sometimes I feel Sudan is just an empty place. We have to build it from
+scratch. And I use art sometimes as the missing home. Because here I
+live really good. I enjoy life. But sometimes I get this feeling of
+"ahhh, I came from Sudan." I remember. And I feel sad and I feel like,
+wow, I have to do that in Sudan. Because I feel what we are missing.
+What we are missing in Sudan, we are missing the foundation. This is an
+illustration showing question (figure 12). I love the human expression.
+The eyes. I paint a lot of eyes.
+
+
+![“Gods in Action (3)” (Khalid Shatta, 2023).](../static/images/shatta/fig12.jpg "“Gods in Action (3)” (Khalid Shatta, 2023).")
+
+**~~Figure 12. “Gods in Action (3)” (Khalid Shatta, 2023).~~**
+
+
+**Boozer:** This one has so many eyes and faces. It looks like there are
+many perspectives on the question.
+
+**Shatta:** Yeah.
+
+**Boozer:** Thank you so much for going through these with me.
+
+**Shatta:** You're welcome. There are also many new ones.
+
+**Boozer:** How has living abroad shaped your perspective of homelife in
+Sudan?
+
+**Shatta:** I think living in Norway, it's a balance of understanding
+myself, understanding my country, understanding Norway. Because, in a
+way, sometimes I feel I am missing something in Sudan. But me being here
+it makes it easier to observe. I become more like a watcher. I can see
+my tree, my journey in Sudan. I can see how I landed here. And there are
+many things in Sudan that I couldn't understand because of many things.
+Because of the basic needs, because of the war, because of the family.
+Every time I understand something that I used to struggle to understand.
+But also understanding that side of trauma and the struggle with the new
+world to settle in a new place. In a way it gives me rest to understand
+Sudan. But also, some years ago it all clashed together and I lost
+myself. You understand?
+
+**Boozer:** Yes.
+
+**Shatta:** Deep trauma, depression, stress, and anxiety and on top of
+that what's going on. Boom. It was really -- wow. And now I'm just
+saying it's a good experience. *Yanni*,[^1] I love the journey! Because
+also Norway, it's a place that makes me able to understand myself right
+now. And also, in my art journey because I made all those arts here. To
+make art is not an easy thing if you live in fear.
+
+**Boozer:** You need mental space in order to create.
+
+**Shatta:** Yes. For me, because of the space I manage to paint and to
+get inspired. Norway is good for my artistic journey. Also, it is really
+a good starting to know people to understand another part of the world
+and also to understand how we are different and how even our problems
+are totally different. And how our sadness could be the same volume and
+the same meaning as the pain of the war. People here die of depression.
+They die of suicide. They die with a lot of things -- with the drugs or
+whatever. The people in Sudan, they die of starving, with the war, or
+with the gangs. But at the end of the day, they are both lost in
+themselves. They are dying. They do not exist anymore. So, I mean all
+suffering is a war in itself. Also, it's a good understanding for me.
+Because I can understand. Because many people if they live in a poor
+situation, they think life is like that. They think they are the only
+people who are suffering. But then you go out and there are other
+people.
+
+**Boozer:** You can get a broader perspective.
+
+**Shatta:** Yes. I am happy to experience that. Not only to live and to
+listen, but I am part of this system too. There are things you can't
+learn through reading. You have to live it. This is what I can say.
+
+**Boozer:** What impact do you hope your art has on others?
+
+**Shatta:** Because I paint from my soul, I believe in that. I don't
+know. I believe in my feelings. There are some things, even for me I do
+not understand, but I can see it in the way I love my art and the way
+other people love my art.
+
+**Boozer:** You just want for them to enjoy it and get what they want
+from it. Is that right?
+
+**Shatta:** No, it's not only like that. I really love my art. For me, I
+need it, I feel the beauty of it. And when people see that too, I see it
+more and I appreciate that. Wow. It means a lot to me. I attract someone
+through my art.
+
+**Boozer:** That it's having an impact, someone's finding meaning in it,
+and making a connection with you? That it helps you see your art in a
+new way?
+
+**Shatta:** Yes. And that's beautiful. Wow. What I'm trying to say is,
+yeah, I appreciate that. Art, it comes from the soul. It is the language
+of the heart, so when people like my art it makes me feel I am honest
+when I am painting and when I am drawing. And also, it connects me. For
+instance, my art is like research. When I start a painting, I start to
+search. I like to go deep, and deep, and deep. And even it connects me,
+especially the project I'm working on now which is about history, about
+humans, about Sudan, Nubia, about many things. But also, wow, it's a
+sign of how those people find me and my art. Why me? That's why I'm
+saying I believe in this art.
+
+**Boozer:** How do you see art contributing to a feeling of home among
+the people who have been displaced due to the current war? Does art have
+a place in giving people a feeling of home?
+
+**Shatta:** I know we have war in Sudan. But I can't speak for any
+artist, but in a way, it needs time to observe. You can always paint.
+You know this painting? This is the first painting I made just about
+Sudan (figure 13) after I went to Cairo after one year. I campaigned
+about war, I campaigned about war, but I didn't feel it. You see? But
+me, in Cairo, I couldn't ignore it. That's why I made this painting.
+Because of what is going on in Sudan. It makes me have to try to
+understand the whole things, how we came to this war, just to attack. To
+attack what is going on. Because for me, what comes out, it is part of
+the solution. You see now, this is part of the solution. And it is part
+of the problem. It's a lot of things. It's the politics. Its many
+things. But at the same time, art is the witness of the time. From
+person to person, it is different. But I don't feel I can speak about
+this question in Sudan, but still I paint. I paint. I painted this
+painting because this is how I see the pain of war. But also, in a way,
+I guess I need to be careful also to use the art in a good way. Because
+now we are in a war, I am worried about Sudan...but I am not there yet.
+I prefer just to let it come naturally. This painting is about Sudan.
+And maybe critiquing the homescape because for people this is how they
+are feeling.
+
+
+![“15th April Panic – Battle of Khartoum 2023” (Khalid Shatta, 2024).](../static/images/shatta/fig13.jpg "“15th April Panic – Battle of Khartoum 2023” (Khalid Shatta, 2024).")
+
+**~~Figure 13. “15th April Panic – Battle of Khartoum 2023” (Khalid Shatta, 2024).~~**
+
+
+**Boozer:** Their disconnect and the swarm of thoughts about war no
+matter where they are.
+
+**Shatta:** Yes.
+
+**Boozer:** Are there any new mediums or projects you'd like to explore?
+
+**Shatta:** Yeah, actually, last month, I was in Portugal. I went for a
+community called "Sacred Activism." I think now I'm looking to get in
+more communities. So, I need just to spend a lot of time with many
+indigenous communities. Because, one day I want to do this in Sudan. I
+felt this was something I really needed. I feel very connected with
+that. To be with a community. To be more spiritual with people. Tamira,
+it is a place in Portugal. The founder is German. Now they are just
+creating space. Most of the people are from Israel, the United States,
+Germany, from Portugal, from Brazil. They create space just to grieve,
+to express themselves in art and rituals and love and sexuality and
+power. It's a lot of things. So, this is what I'm exploring.
+
+**Boozer:** You're always exploring.
+
+**Shatta:** Yes.
+
+[^1]: *Yanni* is a filler used in spoken Arabic equivalent to "like" or
+    "you know" in English.

content/author/annaboozer.md

@@ -5,4 +5,4 @@ affiliation: City University of New York
 
 # Biography
 
-Anna Lucille Boozer is professor at the City University of New York and the director of The Meroë Archival Project in Sudan.
+Anna Lucille Boozer is Professor of Roman Mediterranean Archaeology and Ancient History at Baruch College and the Graduate Center at the City University of New York. She directs MAP: The Meroë Archival Project in Sudan and the CUNY excavations at Amheida in Egypt.

content/author/shatta.md

@@ -0,0 +1,8 @@
+---
+title: Khalid Mohamed Hammad Elkhattem
+affiliation: Visual artist
+---
+
+# Biography
+
+Khalid Shatta is an Olso-based visual artist who primarily uses painting and drawing as his form of visual expression. He is also well-known for his photography. Khalid is originally from the Nuba Mountains in Sudan. He grew up Khartoum before moving to Norway.